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4 questions, CF 202
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Rank: Silver
Joined: 12/3/2003
Posts: 80
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Sometimes we use the numbers of the professions from the online game when playing the board game. While playing the other night, several questions have come up and I'm requesting your thoughts and ideas on 4 questions.
Question 1 - if a player has the profession of the web designer and pulls the doodad card that says your company is going high tech. Outlay a sum of money and hire a web designer at hundreds of dollars per month. Since your profession is web designer, wouldn't one do his own design and forego the monthly expense?
Question 2 - A player wins the heavy hitter's auction. This same player ended up on downsized. I said that the privileges given by the auction are now given up, just like the online game does. The player said no, the card didn't say that it is given up and so she gets to keep it. We went to look it up in the 202 manual and couldn’t find anything specific on the auction and being downsized. Is there a specific rule pertaining to this so that assumptions don't have to be relied on, and where can I find this rule?
Question 3 - A player had the army profession and drew a doodad which said take your kids for medical/dental care. Spend $xxx. The argument made was that if one is in the service, one can use the base doctors for medical care and the tab is picked up by the government. How should this be played?
Question 4 - Same player with the army profession landed on downsized. The argument made was that if one is in the service, how does one get downsized? No more war and conflict? Not likely. Is one immune from being downsized under this profession?
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Rank: Gold
Joined: 5/16/2007
Posts: 215
Location: Dover, DE
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Hey Jack -
Congratulations on playing 202 and asking good questions. I've played it a few times myself so I will contribute my two cents to your thread and hope that it helps you.
Qs 1, 3, 4 are all variations on the same theme: My Profession is BLANK so BLANK doesn't apply. This kind of thinking misses the point of the game. DOODADs happen to EVERYONE. EXPENSES (medical or otherwise) happen to EVERYONE. DOWNSIZING can happen to EVERYONE. Remember the US Federal Government shutdown from a few years ago?
The point is not to try to find exceptions based on your Profession. The Profession could be anything, its just an excuse to have different expenses and incomes. They are not meant to provide anything to the game aside from a Balance Sheet.
In regards to Q 2: I would have to pull the card and look again, but from what I remember it says something along the lines of you may roll 1, 2, or 3 dice *while you are in the Rat Race*. If you are Downsized you are still in the Rat Race, so you do not give up this right.
How do you like 202?
Personally I love the board game and hate the online version.
When we play the board game any more I prefer to play 202, I think it's easier.
Have fun, and good luck!
James Hagarty
Dover, DE
"Every person is self-made, but only the successful are willing to admit it." - Micheal LeBoeuf
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Rank: Silver
Joined: 12/3/2003
Posts: 80
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Hi James, Thanks for the response. I, as well as my cf202 opponent, appreciate the insight you provided to our questions. There have been other instances where we've been playing and a doodad would come up with directions for something ridiculous that none of us would ever buy. In those instances, we'd use the same reasoning as you provided, i.e. doodads happen to everyone and we need to deal with it. In sort of a reverse application of what's been mentioned, much of the time when acquiring property, in real life I'd get insurance. In the game, insurance isn't within reach until the player pulls the card for it. Until then, the investor is self insured. This sure can be devastating early in the game. We haven't played it this way yet, but somehow I feel that if a player wants the expense of having insurance, it should be available anytime during the game. Like you, I also prefer cf202, and I prefer the board version vs. the online version. My preference is because it makes me stretch mentally. As far as being easier, I'm not so sure I'd agree. Especially if I draw something like the janitor profession and then get hammered by the doodads (join the boss's country club, lease a new foreign car, etc). Some of these make me wish for the boat doodad from cf101. I find that there is not a lot of interest in my area for this kind of game. I therefore play the online version a lot. It also seems to frequently get froze up during game play. In all my games the spare time cards have been removed. These are too much like MLM/pyramid type business structures. People have tried to recruit me into this kind of thing, and some of us just aren't MLM kinds of people. I prefer to study the game of money without the MLM. Many games I play by myself. I'll use all 6 rats when I do this. One time I saw on the forum to make a more challenging game, start with the doctor profession and with all 3 kids. I've added to this, the doodad recession card which says all rents are reduced $50 per unit on every cashflow property card. I applied this to all property cards drawn and figured the corresponding %ROI. The attempt is to simulate current economic conditions. It made for a much longer game. Thanks again for your insights, and I’d welcome more input if you have any ideas to share. jack 
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Rank: Copper
Joined: 6/15/2010
Posts: 8
Location: Manhattan, Kansas
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I know that this isn't the point of the topic but I wanted to bring something up. You posted Quote:Question 4 - Same player with the army profession landed on downsized. The argument made was that if one is in the service, how does one get downsized? No more war and conflict? Not likely. Is one immune from being downsized under this profession? I was in the Air Force for about 6 years and for a 2 year period we went through "Force Shaping." This was a downsizing program because the Air Force had to reduce more than 100,000 Airman. This ranged from the bottom all the way to the top. The point is, life happens and the profession doesn't matter. Good luck with 202! I know its kicking my butt lol.
- Chance favors the prepared mind! -
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Rank: Gold
Joined: 5/16/2007
Posts: 215
Location: Dover, DE
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jack720 wrote:...In the game, insurance isn't within reach until the player pulls the card for it...Like you, I also prefer cf202, and I prefer the board version vs. the online version. My preference is because it makes me stretch mentally. As far as being easier, I'm not so sure I'd agree....In all my games the spare time cards have been removed. These are too much like MLM/pyramid type business structures. People have tried to recruit me into this kind of thing, and some of us just aren't MLM kinds of people. I prefer to study the game of money without the MLM. Hey Jack - Yes, I know what you mean about the Insurance, that is pesky. I'm not sure what the reasoning was behind making it a card, but it is what it is. Here's my "formula" for 202 success, for what its worth to you. I fish from the Capital Gains deck until I have $100K-$200K cash (depending on my balance sheet). Then and only then do I start buying Cashflow Deals. Also, I find it useful to pay off pretty much everything. In 101 this step isn't needed, but in 202 it is a life saver. So, pay off all consumer debt, raise capital, then buy your cashflow deals. Works like a charm. In reference to D2Y, it is obviously modeled after Network Marketing or MLM business model. I can understand your personal choice to not start a MLM business in real life, but (and this is slightly off topic) why are you so frightened of it that you pull the cards from the game? You seem to have a real desire to fix, tweak, and otherwise change the game. That's fine I guess, it is always fun to mix things up, but I would encourage you to play the game a few times as it is meant to be played. If it helps you, don't think of D2Y as an MLM company. Just think of it as any company you start from home, that over time can generate significant income. There are thousands upon thousands of ways to do this aside from MLM! The point of playing Cashflow is to recognize opportunities all around you, learn how to analyze them, and take action. Personal prejudice aside, it is very difficult to beat the ROI offered by D2Y in the game. Your downside is the $200 initial investment. So if it never pays off, you are out your $200 (negative 100% ROI). The upside is nearly unlimited. In some games we have played, D2Y owners were making $7,000/month or more. That's a 42,000% (!) ROI. Going back to variations on the game for a minute - one thing my wife and I like to do is play Profession cards that are closely matched in terms of Income and Expenses. This prevents the "your card was easier than mine!" debates that happen when one draws an MD and one a Janitor! Have fun, and good luck. James Hagarty Dover, DE
"Every person is self-made, but only the successful are willing to admit it." - Micheal LeBoeuf
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Rank: Silver
Joined: 12/3/2003
Posts: 80
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 Manhattan, Kansas, You quoted: I was in the Air Force for about 6 years and for a 2 year period we went through "Force Shaping." This was a downsizing program because the Air Force had to reduce more than 100,000 Airman. This ranged from the bottom all the way to the top. The point is, life happens and the profession doesn't matter. Good luck with 202! I know its kicking my butt lol. To Manhattan, Kansas, Thanks for the response. I didn't realize this program even existed in the military, and I appreciate the explanation. Obviously, whatever the fancy name that 'it' is called, it's still downsizing. I know what you mean by cf202 kicking butt. We played a couple of nights ago and my opponent got a couple of dnsize cards very early in the game, the first one being the log cabin, outlay a large dn payment and increase mortgage payment 500 per month. She was ready to quit then and there. She did stick it out and recovered. It was a rough game for her. To James, My approach to success in cf202 is similar to yours. It's much easier to develop assets when you have cash to work from than just the bank. It all still hinges around not getting nasty doodads early in the game, or real life applications, making really stupid decisions. You quoted: In reference to D2Y, it is obviously modeled after Network Marketing or MLM business model. I can understand your personal choice to not start a MLM business in real life, but (and this is slightly off topic) why are you so frightened of it that you pull the cards from the game? You seem to have a real desire to fix, tweak, and otherwise change the game. That's fine I guess, it is always fun to mix things up, but I would encourage you to play the game a few times as it is meant to be played. Frightened, fixing, tweaking and changing the game. Starting with the subject of fright, I think what I said was, "People have tried to recruit me into this kind of thing (MLM), and some of us just aren't MLM kinds of people. I prefer to study the game of money without the MLM." I was referring to a small number of Amway professionals who were offering me a part of this experience. I've been to several Amway meetings including a regional meeting in Memphis TN, but I didn't join. My cost basically was fuel and time. There have been other MLM organizations trying to get me to join. Generally, the recruitment process is a turn off. A friend joined an MLM business and wanted myself and several other friends to join. The business was new to the area and was going to go gangbusters, as reported by the friend! I came up with the $200 to enter the business. Neither the friend, nor any of us recruits are a part of this business today. I've evaluated the various details of the meetings, recruitment, and actually joining one of these, and determined that I do not want my time and energy to be devoted to MLM. I prefer to think I have a mind that can determine what I like and don’t like and can act on it. If that is being frightened, well alrighty then. BTW, Casper says Boo! Fixing, tweaking and changing the game has come about as a result of playing the game many times ‘by the book’. I've even added some rules that aren't included in the 101 or 202 manual. Example, one evening, I had some guests who wanted to try their hand at playing cf101. One of them felt the need to tend to his cell phone, and did expect the rest of us to wait until he was done with the call and then he'd tend to his turn in the game. So now, the rule is, any player who wants to tend to cell phone calls rather than shutting off the equipment and giving full attention to the game will not be penalized, but rather encouraged to tend to the calls. However, if the choice is made to tend to a call, then the choice has been made to go on vacation while the rest of the world tends to business. Therefore, the rest of us aren’t waiting and wondering. The player can return to the game when his turn comes around again. This is just one example of my fixing the rules. Another tweak is a result of playing with just 1 or 2 players. Statistically speaking, I've noticed that occurrences of landing on market spaces in 101 while playing with 1 or 2 rats is greatly reduced from playing with all 6 rats. In 202 with the same application of rats, the options can be affected greatly since the options expire at the end of the player's 3rd turn. An example of a change is a suggestion I borrowed from a different post. In reference to 202, start the game with the doctor's profession, and 3 kids. I also applied the doodad recession card that says all rents are reduced $50 per unit. I applied this to all cards drawn that generate rent. The idea is to increase one’s problem solving ability with reduced income while maintaining the same level of expenses. It comes a bit closer in simulating today's economic problems (my opinion). Again, thanks to everyone for your insights. It's difficult to find like minded people in my area. I've even had someone who showed interest in playing a game and completely stood me up at game time. Ok, fine. It simply verifies to me where to find like minded people. So, I appreciate your input, and would welcome more. I'll be checking back! - jack
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Rank: Gold
Joined: 5/16/2007
Posts: 215
Location: Dover, DE
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Hey Jack - Yes, we have noticed that the Options often Expire worthless when playing with 2. As far as finding people to play? Good luck with that! I have found it very difficult to get a regular group going. Have you tried creating a group for your area? It is free to register: https://www.richdad.com/Secure/Club/RegisterClub.aspx and you might get a couple of players that way. Find a good meeting space and set a regular time. Provide snacks if you can. Most important - always hold your game no matter what! Even if no one RSVPd you may be surprised by people who just show up. Good luck! James
"Every person is self-made, but only the successful are willing to admit it." - Micheal LeBoeuf
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