Part 2: How Small Investors Can Hit It Big

Release date: March 2, 2022
Duration: 27min
Guest(s): Marin Katusa
Marin Katusa
powered by Sounder

Marin Katusa joins Robert Kiyosaki for part two of their conversation. If you’ve missed part one, please listen or read last week’s episode.

How did A.O.C. (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) and the Green New Deal Make Both of Us Richer?

“Essentially, in theory, it’s a good thing to decarbonize the world. All the science is there. Everyone agrees to that. But how? That's the issue. How do we get there? And that's where it's not thought out properly. So essentially what a carbon credit is, it's the equivalent, a sequestering or taking out one ton of carbon dioxide or its equivalent, like nitric oxides and all the nasty pollution. So how can you do that? Well, trees are a natural way of absorbing it. You have mangrove, like blue carbon, the ocean is the best way to do it because the key part of the ocean is when it goes under the water table, it stays sequestered for over 1000 years. That carbon disappears out of the atmosphere for over 1000 years, whereas in the trees and the forests, let's say the average lifecycle of a forest is 100, to 200, 300 years tops. That carbon then recycles back into the environment. And then you have to go through that process again, so my favorite is blue carbon, but there's other ways. There's direct air capture.”

I’m a capitalist, but I’m a hard-core Greenie, especially regarding the oceans.

“It's the biggest sector of growth in the planet. People are always asking me, "Marin, what should my kid do? Marin, how does my kid do what you're doing?" I go, "Look, if I was in university, it doesn't matter where you are," this is the beauty of it. It's not because I'm born in Vancouver and I was fortunate to live in Canada, and the markets here. This wasn't a market three years ago. Robert, your show was the first to talk about this because it was so revolutionary.

We're talking about the first five minutes of the first inning in a nine-inning game. And you can go and try to find a copper deposit, or a uranium deposit, there's thousands of guys who have lots of money doing that, and that's going to be hard for someone with no business experience to catch up to do what those guys are doing because they've spent the time and the contacts. This is different. There's over 60 ways to sequester to receive a carbon credit. You can do fuel switching, soil management, agricultural products. You can do direct air capture. The technologies that are going to come up, look what Elon Musk is talking about that in the future, he wants to figure out how to take carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere to use it as a fuel source to keep moving forward.

There's going to be so many innovations. We're talking about we're in 1970 in the internet days here. And again, it's not about us versus the AOCs of the world, or the Biden's agenda, or the European Union agenda. Its guys like us that are solving the problem of what they want to do to: How do we get there? We're providing the pathway, the actual framework to decarbonize. And when you provide a solution for a major problem, that's when you get paid a lot of money.”

Explain what a Carbon Credit is

“So one carbon credit, you get it certified by an independent party that you have sequestered, you've taken out one ton of carbon out of the atmosphere. Then what happens is you get it issued from someone like a Verra, or a Gold Standard, and they say, "Okay, Robert Kiyosaki and Kim, they created this project and they have sequestered 10,000 tons of carbon annually. Here's a certificate," and now you can take that certificate and sell it in a stock exchange, just like you can sell stocks. Or you can sell it directly to Facebook and Amazon and the other 3000 companies globally that have committed to decarbonizing, and here's the opportunity.”

So, you are saying that large companies are polluting like crazy, and they have to buy the credit that you created, correct?

“Correct. And the concrete companies, again, the concrete production in China every year produces more carbon dioxide than all of the internal combustion engines, all of the cars on the planet combined. Right? And those guys, believe it or not, even the Chinese government has created a carbon exchange. And they're forcing their own companies to decarbonize because they're dealing with an air-pocalypse, just like they're dealing with a pandemic. The health effects of the pollution within China because of the manufacturing hub, that's an issue that they're trying to deal with also.”

Right now, what is happening with Carbon Credits in the real world?

“50 billion tons of carbon, a little over 50 billion, it's about 55, is emitted, is produced annually. And yet, the world is saying, "Wait a second." Do you know how many credits were certified last year, Robert? Less than 300 million. This year, for 2022, they're going, "Maybe we'll get to 400 million." So you're talking about less than 1% because we're talking less than 500 million, but we need 50 billion. Right? This opportunity to produce these credits, and remember, it's not just the government saying this. The boards, Exxon, Shell, BP- all the oil producers, the airlines, they've all committed to this. But they're looking around and going, "Crap, we need carbon credits. We need to produce these credits." And the prices of carbon credits is the number one performing asset in the world in 2021, and also thus far in 2022. Since I was on your show, remember when we first talked about this a year ago, they're tripled. And the trend is your friend. Now why are they going up? Let's take a big chemical producer in Europe, like BASF.

But there's ETFs that people can buy, that you don't have to be accredited, and I don't own those. I'm just saying this sector. Why is the price going up? Because it's cheaper still today for a major chemical company that makes massive pollution of CO2 to just go and pay $100 per ton than it is to actually change their operations. So that's why the price is going to go up, because until they make actual changes, you're looking at $150 a ton is when it starts hurting their balance sheet. That is an incredible opportunity because you can produce these for $10, $15 per ton today in the market.”

You also started an organization called The Carbon Rangers. These are indigenous people who live near the forest, and are given the technology to monitor their environment, correct?

“Correct. So, let's say a copper mine, so all the mines that I'm involved with financing, we're making a commitment to go net zero. So, you come in go, "Okay, what can we sequester?" One of the mines that I financed and was one of the largest shareholders of has an incredible blue carbon project right to the site. The management had no idea. It was because we were on a helicopter viewing the gold pit, and we looked at that and went, "Oh, there's the ... " The helicopter guy goes, "There's mangroves over there." I go, "Mangroves."

Everyone's focusing on the gold mine. I'm going, "That's a blue carbon mine. That's a green, that's an incredible opportunity." Now blue carbon credits are the most valuable carbon credits because not only do you sequester the carbon for over 1000 years, 10 times longer than the forest, but think about all of the biodiversity, positive impacts. When you start the mangroves, you get the corals, you get the turtles. And you can calculate all this. So now the indigenous people, you can't teach someone metallurgy, or calculus, or geology in three, six months. But using modern technology, there's a lighter technology, if somebody comes to illegally harvest the mangroves to create a shrimp farm, or illegally chop down some trees, or illegally hunt, the new technologies on their phone will alert them, such that you can tell how many people, the make of the truck that they're using, even to the extent of the chainsaw that these people are using.

That is how incredible the technologies are available. And it fits on this. You don't need to build this whole center. So, by bringing in the Carbon Rangers, you're creating high paying jobs, long-term paying jobs, because the value of these carbon credits, you're actually not taking anything out of the ground. It's capitalists giving back to the ground, and that's where the ultimate score in this. And it's so hard for the mining guys and the oil guys to understand this. But the ones who do, like a Ross Beaty, who's a legend in the business, once he got it, he's made tens of millions of dollars from this, and he's a huge fan.

Why? Because all the resources we've been taking out of this Earth, but the carbon credits are refilling the Earth. It's taking carbon out of the atmosphere by developing the nature-based solutions.”

Let’s talk about Gold. Without giving it away, can you tell us about your latest deal?

“I was quite fortunate that during the lockdowns, the big companies, the employees on the left, they were told to not go anywhere. They were told without the vaxes, you can't travel, the airlines weren't traveling. And I was fortunate enough that I had enough of a balance sheet that the industry knew, well, there's this guy in Vancouver that's probably crazy enough to come down. And there was a PhD geologist who discovered something incredible. And I looked at it, and they pitched me, they presented it to me, and I said, "No, I don't believe it. That's too good to be true."

I read up on the history. It all kind of held together, but those grades, you don't see. And if they said was true, what they were saying, it would be the highest producing grade gold mine in the world. And I went, "How can that be?"

Owned by a private group. Exactly. So, I said, "What do I got to lose?" So, I organized a private plane so I didn't have to wait on Delta or United, took my guys. We went underground, so I was fortunate enough to be the first outside of this private group that made the discovery. I was the first outsider to see the discovery. And Robert, I filled my pockets like there was no tomorrow with this material. I put my backpack; I have a 20-kilo rock. And when we took it out above ground hours later, I was blown away. And how could this be? Because when Kennecott, the world's largest copper producer at the time for 30, 40 years, was producing in this area. They were producing the world's largest copper mine.

When you have copper, you produce a copper concentrate that you send to the smelter. But you can't just send that copper con, you need to down blend it with a flux to make sure the temperature right to extract the copper and gold, and then separate all the nasties like mercury and fluorine and all these things you don't want in your final product.

So, this area was producing the flux, but yet, this district that these guys found produced 300 million ounces of silver, 2.9 million ounces of gold, and it was an afterthought for Kennecott. Why? Because when they were underground in the '30s, '40s and '50s and '60s and '70s, all they cared about was flux, which is a white rock. This gold, I myself, I'm going to completely admit it, if I didn't have the modern technology of an XRF gun, which is this $50,000 gun. You walk around. Its battery controlled. And you shoot the rock and it tells you how much gold you have, how much silver you have. It's the new technology.

The old guys didn't have that. This gold is so high grade that it's green. On my report, I show all the photos. No geologist could see it with their own eyes because it's so rare. You don't see these at mines. And that's why the Kennecott guys underground, they didn't have the benefit that we had of modern technology, and it was a different time. All they were focused on was producing the flux. And yet, that flux was so pure quartzite, the other 1.5% was super high-grade gold and silver, that's the hanging rock around the super high grade. These guys missed it by 20 feet, Robert, 20 feet.

You have it. That rock right there is about 20 kilos, has over 10 ounces per ton gold. It's worth over $20,000, just that rock melt down value. But it's a beautiful rock. That's on my side table in my desk in my office. Robert, they just opened up a new extension zone, all the analysts were there. This is the hottest story in the mining world right now. 102 ounces per ton, fire assayed over eight feet. That's a $180,000 rock. When the average mine in the world is not even 1% of that, it's just mind blowing.

“God made Gold but the Devil took it and spread it around…”—Marin Katusa.

“I've been to Mongolia a few times. I love history. I read a lot. Do you know what Genghis Khan called his land, which is Mongolia? He himself called it the asshole of the world. Right? And you think about any of these companies that go to these jurisdictions, of course, the foreigners are going, "Wow, these guys want to build the roads and all these buildings and the power lines. And then we're going to give them the gold." All the infrastructure has to come in before you produce an ounce of gold.”

You can read Marin Katusa’s newest book, The Rise of America, and learn more at